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C. diff warning issued months before deaths



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Published Date: 22 June 2008
HEALTH chiefs in charge of tackling the hospital superbug Clostridium difficile warned four months ago that Scotland was failing to match tough new measures in England aimed at preventing deadly outbreaks.
Scotland on Sunday can reveal that senior officials at the country's main infection-control body, Health Protection Scotland (HPS), had deep concerns in February about "the lack of guidance in Scotland" on how hospitals should combat C. difficile

Their fears were prompted by a comprehensive 133-page report written by English health chiefs on how to prevent the bug taking hold in hospitals. The guidance, ordered in England more than 18 months ago, was not circulated north of the border because Scotland has a separate NHS structure.

Last night, Professor Hugh Pennington – one of the country's leading experts on infection control – said: "Bugs don't stop at Gretna. But the Department for Health in Scotland appears to have been far more laid-back than their counterparts in England. This guidance would have made a difference."

The new revelations follow the outbreak of C. difficile at Vale of Leven Hospital, near Glasgow, where nine patients have died since Christmas as a direct result of catching the bug. Nine other patients have died after contracting the virulent strain of the bug – known as type 027 – at Aberdeen Royal Infirmary and Stobhill Hospital, Glasgow.

Yesterday it emerged a ward at the Victoria Infirmary, Glasgow, had been closed to new admissions after three patients tested positive for C. difficile. A spokesman said the patients were being nursed in isolation, and none were giving cause for concern. Additional cleaning, and strict infection control measures, have been implemented, he added.

Commenting on the Vale of Leven outbreak, Health Secretary Nicola Sturgeon admitted last week that the surveillance systems at the hospital were "inadequate".

But attention is now focusing on the safeguards put in place by ministers and officials to protect the public at large.

In England, the Department of Health ordered its own infection body, the Health Protection Agency, to produce new guidance on C. difficile as far back as November 2006. It followed a devastating outbreak in Kent which left 90 people dead.

That guidance was published in February. A government document seen by Scotland on Sunday reveals that health protection officials in Scotland were immediately worried about the lack of equivalent guidance north of the border.

The document reveals that on February 14, one HPS official attended a meeting in London to study the new English guidance. "After returning from this meeting (the official] raised concerns … on the lack of CDAD (C. difficile-associated disease] guidance in Scotland."

Sturgeon's aides last night insisted those concerns had not been passed up to ministers or health department officials.

A source close to Sturgeon said: "This is the first time that we have been made aware of this. We are not aware of any Scottish minister being informed about this. As far as we are aware, there was no contact between the HPS and the Scottish Government on this."

Pennington said last night that had the guidance been provided to hospitals in Scotland the impact of the outbreak would have been lessened.

"The seriousness of the problem would have been much less and the number of deaths would have been much less," he said.

"Whichever way you look at it, they (England] have been more pro-active than the health department in Scotland."

A spokesman for the Scottish Government said that new guidance would be issued to hospitals before the Scottish Parliament returned for its summer recess in September.

The full article contains 599 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 June 2008 7:48 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Hospital superbugs
 
1

Matt there,

somewhere 22/06/2008 00:42:19
"Whichever way you look at it, they (England] have been more pro-active than the health department in Scotland."

Oh. They HAVE, have they? This would be why far too many hospitals in England are still disgustingly filthy? With doctors and nurses not bothering to use proper hygiene procedures?

I think Dr Pennington -good hearted chap that he is- is living in a bit of a dream world!
2

Guga II,

Rockall 22/06/2008 03:59:20
"Health Protection Scotland (HPS), had deep concerns in February about "the lack of guidance in Scotland" on how hospitals should combat C. difficile"

What a load of garbage. If they haven't got it worked out by now, then they are obviously totally incompetent and shouldn't be in the job.

The way to fix the problem is for more people to sue the NHS for large amounts of money, and for these so-called managers to be charged with corporate culpable homicide.

Gaoling a few managers should make the rest of them boost their efficiency considerably.


3

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 22/06/2008 05:59:20
Read the headline and thought that a journalist from Scotland on Sunday had been doing some investigation, scanned the article then looked at the by-line.
Yup there it was a SLAB spinmiester filling the columns with another press release.

4

Guga II,

Rockall 22/06/2008 08:19:26
#4 AM Squared.

As I would expect from an Irishman, you do have a nice turn of phrase. However, you definitely did overcook it, quite a bit.

Incidentally, would you term yourself as a New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party cyber-activist, or just an archaic Unionist cyber-activist?

5

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 09:28:33
"senior officials at the country's main infection-control body, Health Protection Scotland (HPS), had deep concerns in February about "the lack of guidance in Scotland" "

Seems the main infection control body should maybe pull its finger out then. What do we pay them for?
6

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 09:29:05
4. Tasteless AM2 - this is about people dying in hopsitals.
7

Nikostratos,

22/06/2008 09:41:08
# AM2

This is one of two controversial issues that the usual suspect cypernats are cacking themselves over and are hoping will disappear asap.

The other is

The Calman Commission on the future of Scottish home rule fears public meetings and its internet site are vulnerable to "hijack" by Nationalists

Commission members are also concerned about inviting contributions on the website, saying that "carried considerable risks if not approached with caution".

http://www.theherald.co.uk/search/display.var.2353737.0.warning_over_hijacking_of_constitution_meetings.php



Your impersonation lacked the deep vicious level of genuine hate that 'some' (admittedly the sick ones) nationalist supporters have towards everyone they perceives as an enemy (which includes most people)


Guga is an excellent example of the type..Black hearted to the core.

8

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 09:51:23
10. Niko

I would think everyone should be concerned about people dying in hospitals? Given a 17% increase in C-diff under Labour's stewardship of the NHS, and 50,000 deaths from HAIs, I find it rather odd, cheap and tasteless that you and AM2 have attempted to politicise this as some kind of SNP related story...
9

,

22/06/2008 10:13:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Nikostratos,

22/06/2008 10:13:23
#11

this happened on the snp watch sturgeon needs to explain why and how she intends to stop these occurrences.
As for the the rest of your post who for one second believes if this was a labour Administration the snp supporters wouldn't be pouring out criticism by the bucket load

Well I'll tell you nobody at all

This i am afraid will run and run people died and questions need to answered by Nicola sturgeon.
The snp have the responsibility for this and no amount of backward pointing to the past is going to fool the public.

Oh! by the way you never mentioned about the Nationalist Brownshirt tendency to smash up open meetings Viz the Calman commission?
11

Nikostratos,

22/06/2008 10:15:28
#12

Never know Guga maybe they were some unionists amongst them eh?There you go made your day
12

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 22/06/2008 10:24:19
Wee Nicola was quick enough with the populist reversal of closure of two A&E wards when she grabbed control last May, but when it comes to the longer game she's obviously about as much use as wee fat Eck who's only aim in life seems to blame Westmnister for everything.

Well on this one the buck stops right here at their door so where's the action to match all the words and hot air - or should we just have another conversation about it?
13

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 11:04:00
13. Niko, as 50,000 people have died of HAIs under Labour, and MRSA and C Diff have risen hugely under Labour, I am still unclear why you think this outbreak is an SNP related issue? If one wanted to polticise this, then surely you would want fisrt to address the 50,000 deaths over the last 11 years?

With regards to Brown-shirts, as the Calman commission has never held any meetings, I can only assume your comments about meetings being smashed are just the usual lies and delusions from a panicked unionist in depsair. The only fascist brown-shirt tactics that come to mind are the old man being physically assaulted and thrown out of a Labour conference by bouncers for mentioning the war, 42 day detention without trial, ID cards, banning freedom to meet and protest near Westminster - all Labour initiatives you no doubt endorse.
14

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 22/06/2008 11:57:22
So they were very active in England and we were doing nothing - I don't think so. If the problem was so serious and there was a need for 133 pages of guidance on how to keep a hospital clean, then why didn't the last administration, was it ANDY KERR ? get a grip of the situation then and commission his own special guidance. And how did it take the might of the English NHS so long to produce a 133 page guide - had they never come across the issue of hospital hygiene before - surely these documents are based on cut and paste with added specifics.
There is an unseemly haste and false piety about the labour party's attempt to go for Sturgeon on this one. OK, she is responsible. She's doing something about it. The way they're going at it you would think that they ahve proof of her going around persoanally spreading Cdif out of cultures from her rucksack. Keep going on it labour, it's still not working for me, your tactics just show you up for the bunch of our letter words that most of you are.
15

Dr Finlay,

Tannochbrae 22/06/2008 12:06:14
Death in hospital is a serious subject and shouldn't be subject to party politics.

Having said that, let's not get this issue out of proportion - since the time of Hippocrates people at the end of life have died of infections of one sort or another. Pneumonia even used to be called "the old man's friend". The final thing that often happens in these cases is a quick overwhelming infection of some kind.

Hospitals are full of very frail, sick, vulnerable and sometimes dying people. It is also where high powered antibiotics have to be used leading to various strains of multi-resistant bacteria. It is therefore pretty likely that some people will be unable to resist these bugs when they are at that point. Sometimes they die of the bug and sometimes they die with it among other things.

I am not defending careless infection-control in any way but let's not be fooled into thinking that we will somehow totally prevent infections and death in these poor souls.

The media and political storm over this has missed the point that there is no overall rise in total mortality because of these bugs - the deaths are, often, replacing deaths from eg "normal" pneumonia or multi-organ failure from some other cause.

Of course, there are exceptions to this and they must be tackled but some of the comments here are a bit OTT. If you sue and gaol health staff because patients die in hospital then there would be no-one left in health care at all! Remember that those same people save far more lives then they lose.

16

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:11:49
Number 1) Doctors and Nurses no matter what side of the Border should not need to be consistantly told about Hygiene it should be second nature to them .
2) we have often been told that MRSA was spread because of Visitors ..this has been found to be untrue that infection is down to Hospitals and staff not cleaning properly this has happened since the Privatisation of Cleaning staff brought in by a Tory Gov in which they cut the hours and pay for Cleaning staff and then expected the Cleabners to do the same job in half the time and for half the Pay .. Labour should have put a stop to this as soon as they were elected they didnt ..so now is the time to get back to the Old practise of the Hospitals employing their own Cleaners with Decent Wages and Benefits ..then you will see a change ...Doctors and Nurses do not Practise what they Preach and should be made aware of the Danger they are putting their Patients at when they " Firget " to wash their hands before they go near any Patient...it is a simple thing to do and saves lives ..Just like Lister and Pastuer showed the Profeesion over a 100yrs ago ..so much for progress...
17

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:13:26
" Forget " ...for those who cant understand my accent ....hehe
18

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:18:41
Wee Fifer it is not the Haste of the Labour Party in going for Sturgeon when she has failed in her Job it is her Lack of Haste in Dealing with it that is the Point ..she came out with a story of one of her Grandparents sufferinf from it at the end of their life ..what did she come out with that story for Sympathy ? if I was in her Position and if that had happened to one of mine ..I would be on top of it and do all I could to make sure it didnt happen to anyone else..she didnt ..did she ? and if this had happened and Labour were in cherge in Scotland do you think Sturgeon would be silent on it ..Get real ...she has done nothing to her shame ..and dragged her relations into it ..to cover her backside ...shame on her
19

boudica,

Glasgow .. 22/06/2008 12:20:12
" Charge" ...dito
20

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:25:02
Ayrshire as one commentator already pointed out ..infectiosn dont stop at the Border and what happened at the Kent Hospitals was a warning to those in Charge of our Health and Safety ..That happens to be Ms Sturgeon ..she did nothing either to gee up the Health Boards etc ..Did she ? so she dint do her Job the one she gets paid plenty for by Us ...health is a devolved issue isnt it ?....the SNP Government are only interest in the oil issue and Golf Courses as for all the rest ..they know nothing and do nothing
21

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:30:04
Dr Finaly the issue here is that the Medical Professionals have forgotten the Basics in caring for the sick ..as in keeping them clean and not leaving them laying in their own faeces as the norm for them to say is " we dont do that" ..why dont they do that ? as I have said it is a basic need for the sick if they are bedridden ..it is well know that the " Care " as gone out of the " Caring Professions" unless it comes to wages then we can see how much they do care and what they care most about ...
22

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:37:11
Wee Fifer ..no matter who is in Charge it is the Medical Professionals who have failed in this ..they should not need to be reminded on what Cleaniness is when dealing with the sick and at the last breakout of this in England it was noted that the Doctors and Nurses didnt raise any concerns as far as they were concerned it was not part of their remit ..Who taught these Morons ? because it is them that have failed to instill the need for the highest hygiene practises ...I know that Nurses now do more Theory than Practical training ..well that is failing so get them back into the hospitals and teach them from scratch as they say from the bottom up ..maybe then we will get somewhere and the will learn what it is to care correctly for people.. as when some patients dont fill the criteria they learn about in books they seem stymmied..no clue ..so teach them the lot ..in Hospitals not Uni`s
23

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:41:13
16 ...It was the Tories that brought in the Privatisation of the Cleaning staff in Hospitals ...Labour should have put an end to it I agree ...but have the Natz done anything about it ? No ..so it is down to them ..Sturgeon as done nowt and is still doing nowt ..so your point being ?
24

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:45:37
As you can now doubt see this is a sore point with me and the Natz blaming all on the last Government does them no good ...I have friend that work in the Health service and this is endemic as in hiring people who are supposed to do nursing jobs and cant speak any english ..and all they are allowed to is wash nightstands etc and getting paid fullwages ...some Nusing staff send the home will others allow this practise to continue for fear of being call racist ..that is another thing Ms Sturgeon should sort out ..but I guess she is among the Fearties too on this ..
25

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:48:28
What is she doing about the Nurses watching Child Porn whilst on duty on childrens wards ..My , My Ms Sturgeon seems to be ignorant of a lot that is going on her Dept ..doesnt she ?
26

boudica,

Glasgow 22/06/2008 12:50:03
Ayrshire ..I take it you`ll say ..they switched on the pc to view Porn when labour was in charge ..typical Natz
27

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 13:20:30
Boudica - #18-29 .... 11 post mentalism

23 - an inquiry is underway.... it seems to be a failure within the hospital but we await details...lets see what can be learned
28

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 13:40:49
, good to see AM2's offensive and tasteless post at #4 has been moderated
29

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 22/06/2008 13:42:14
Sturgeon, the game's up. Jump before you are pushed.
30

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 14:25:20
33. Come now, AM2, your comment has clearly been deemed to be offensive by the editorial staff, who have deleted it.....
31

Gaelforce,

Hawaii via california and Alexandria Dumbarton 22/06/2008 15:09:32
As I commented on this subject when it first broke, it's not the governments fault if the greater Glasgow health board keep quiet and sweep it under the rug about the outbreak at the vale of leven, and the count at the vale of leven is actually 22, and again what do you expect when GGHB think more about balance sheets than patients and by underfunding this hospital to the point of near closure and that the staff have worked hard to keep it going.
32

Seoras67,

Edinburgh 22/06/2008 15:11:53
To the best of my knowledge - and I stand willing to be corrected - there have been no deaths as a result of MRSA and C diff in any privately run hospitals - see http://tpa.typepad.com/waste/2008/06/unsafe-in-their.html If these deaths happened in private hospitals our, 'State knows best' politicians would be clamouring to shut them down until such time as they could prove they were 'clean.' Why don't they take the same approach to the NHS? Perhaps, even sack, without compensation, the managers responsible?
33

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 19:16:59
37. Come now AM2, why are you posting untruths masked as questions? I did not report it. I was just remarking that the editorial staff clearly found your post offensive enough as to delete it.
34

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 19:47:43
39. Now, now AM2 - you are appearing like a conspiracy theorist and paranoid ranter. What do you mean I "had inside knowledge" of why your post was deleted? I just remarked, that as your post was deleted, it must have been offensive and tasteless.

You then reference post 8, which "quotes" "quotes" which appear nowhere on this thread, and ask me if I found the "quotes" which are not in fact anywhere to be found on this thread to be more offensive than your actual posted remarks which did appear on this thread and were deleted from it for their poor taste?

Let me get this straight - you ask if "quotes" which do not exist on this thread offended me more than your actual remarks which the moderators deemed beyond the pale?

What an odd character.
35

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/06/2008 20:08:13
41. AM2 - you just said at 39 "What made me think you had reported it was your apparent inside knowledge of the basis on which it was deleted"

and now you say "I didn't say you "had inside knowledge". People can judge for themselves but clearly you are being sophistic and parsing statements and spinning as usual

Now you say the quotes you quote at post 8 do appear on this thread - they appear nowhere on this thread - for all I know you have fabricated them/
36

Matt there,

somewhere 22/06/2008 22:14:16
Of course there have been no nasty superbug deaths in privater hospitals. At the first sign of anything nasty it is a blue light job to the nearest NHS hospita.
37

JennyA,

Scotland 25/06/2008 09:54:03
In response to a query about C.difficile prevention and control in NHS hospitals, I received the following reply from a member of the Healthcare Associated Infection Team (Scottish Government).
'I can assure you that a range of policies and procedures have been established to prevent and control outbreaks of infections in hospitals.'
She also stated,'We are building on the excellent work carried out to date.'
The date of this letter was 23-11-07
My reply to this letter asked the question. ' What exactly do you mean by the excellent work carried out to date with particular reference to C.difficile?
She still hasn't told me!!

 

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